Random Thoughts and Feelings on Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door

 Recently, as part of my foolish attempt to decrease my monstrous backlog, I decided to play one of my oldest hanging threads in it, Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door.  One of the most beloved games of all time, I acquired it many years ago after watching several of my at the time favorite content creators tackle the game.  At a certain point in time, although I had never finished it myself, I would've even gone so far as to say TTYD is one of my favorite games of all time as, regretfully, much of my own thoughts and opinions were parroting those of people whose content I enjoyed playing games I never thought I would be able to play myself.  Over the years however, my own opinions on gaming and especially TTYD have evolved and now, as an adult, I decided to finally tackle the game in its entirety.  The following are various thoughts and opinions I privately shared with various friends and friend groups but initially I did not wish to share with the masses, due to my own knowledge on, a, how beloved this game is, 2, how passionate its audience tends to be, and lastly, how my own opinions on the game I knew were already and/or going to be pretty mixed.  However, for posterity, I wanted to collect these thoughts and here we are.

11/06/2024

So like, I get the whole philosophy behind having incredibly low damage values and in some way I respect it.  But tbh, it's like the thing I dislike about how Paper Mario handles stats.  Like I get the idea of like "1 damage and 2 damage feel so substantial this way" but I've always felt like it doesn't work as much in practice because it eventually just kinda ends up at "it always feels like I'm not doing enough damage" after a certain point.

Finished Chapter 1.  I'm liking TTYD more than I expected to from previous attempts to play it and from watching other people play it, but I'm not like wowed yet.  Messed up and accidentally upgraded HP, RIP.

11/09/2024

Finished Chapter 2 of TTYD.  Boggly Woods is an absolute vibe, just on vibes this is possibly my favorite chapter in any Paper Mario game I've played so far.  Actually playing it?  It's alright.  I think a thing about TTYD I'm realizing is that areas just feel really small?  Like I don't know if they're actually any smaller than the areas in 64 or Super but the way they're laid out makes them feel so much smaller.

I'm liking the combat more than I have in the past but I think that's mostly because I'm going into it already knowing I gotta do something funny with my build so that battles don't last forever.  We're doing Danger/Peril strats bby, hell yeah.

I'm now a few party members into the game and like, idk if this is just how I'm playing or what, but it kind of feels like Goombella is still the only party member I want to have in combat like 90% of the time?  Like Koops is useful situationally so far and Flurrie's whole gimmick of being a board clear only seems to work on enemies I don't find especially annoying to deal with and doesn't work on like, say, a board of Piranha Plants.  Partner balancing could be better, lol.

I am still liking it way more than I thought I was going to from previous experiences but like, I'm still mostly like "this is fine".

The attack point upgrade in Chapter 2 is decently well timed but an issue I have with like Paper Mario in general, as I've mentioned previously, is that it still always feels like I'm not doing enough damage in this series?  Like it always feels like by the time they give me the option to do 2 damage instead of just 1, you should already be doing 3 damage on your normal attack.  I think I would've just put an attack point on every x amount of levels myself.

(In reply to a friend on the nature of the badge system) I actually feel like I need to grind more with badges so that I have more room for badges to strategize with. Like to me this system is way more dependent on grinding than a traditional stat system because in order to have room to strategize you need to have levels to get the badge points.  Like to me it's very frustrating how quickly it becomes where regular enemy fights are functionally worthless in the chapter.  It's like the game is telling me "okay, you're too strong for this now" but idk.  I don't have traditional stats, I don't really feel stronger, this room full of enemies is going to take me as much time to beat at level 8 as it does at level 7, but now I just get half the EXP for doing so.

11/10/24

Anyways, I'm like halfway through the Glitz Pit and uh.  Fuck this.  Fuck this actually.  This is horrible.

So basically what happened is that I got to the ranked 7th match, the Shellshockers, right?  The Shellshockers legitimately took an hour by themselves because I kept getting bad objective rolls, stuff like "take damage five times" or "don't attack for three turns".  The issue is that the Shellshockers are a team of really strong enemies where, even if I guard, I am still taking 4 damage per hit, so four hits and I'm out.

Now admittedly, part of the reason these objectives were so bad is because I haven't been upgrading HP as up until this point exactly, haven't felt like I've needed it and I like the additional attack points I get from being in Danger/Peril.  That being said, I don't have an option really to rectify this problem because of how Paper Mario handles EXP.  Like I can't go somewhere and grind because I'm now high enough level to where every other area I can access to do said grinding nets me 1 exp per fight.  And also, I don't want to do that, because I don't want to have my spell to double EXP triggering on random fights I'm not getting anything out of, wasting uses.

My other option is to derank, but the problem we're facing there is that because the objectives are, in effect, "let yourself die", I can't derank even if I wanted to without throwing, and I don't want to throw because I know I can beat this stupid fight where I'm at if the game would just stop being horrible to me!  Like I could derank, fight the lower tiers over and over, get more HP, get back to the Shellshockers and then have an objective that would make the grind feel like I wasted my time and actively hurt me longterm because now I just have more HP I need to burn through to get to Danger.  I hate this, I hate this chapter's stupid gimmick so much.

My Yoshi is Orange, btw.  Getting past the Yoshi means I'm probably further now than I ever was in the past?  I don't remember exactly where I stopped in the past and forgot to check before I wiped the save file since I wasn't going to return to it to finish it but I distinctly remember forcing myself to spend the max time to get the white Yoshi to feel special.

If they do another Paper Mario game like the original 2 after TTYD, they gotta do something about the Koopa party member because man.  Kooper and Koops are very clearly like the worst party members in their respective games.

Koops' entire purpose in the party is currently being rendered obsolete by a newborn, I don't believe there is a worse party member than that.  And if there is, holy shit.  Like people have been saying this game is a masterpiece for 20 years but almost half the party members are awful?

11/11/24

Finished Chapter 3 last night.  I didn't like it.  Combat focused chapter, not doing it for me ever.  I already think the combat is the weakest part of this game and boy howdy did this chapter really highlight all my issues.  Like half the required fights are just complete wastes of time but also you can't just easily deal with them because despite the fact that the game is telling you you're too strong for this fight by giving you no EXP, you never feel any stronger because your attack point increases are determined by specific story beats and not by leveling up, meaning a room full of enemies you fight at level 1 can still take as much time to beat as that same room full of enemies at level 11.

And then on top of that, there's a massive difficulty spike halfway through the chapter where fights go from "wastes of time" to "way too rough", where suddenly enemies have an unheard of amount of like attack and defense for this part of the game, with a lot of times them being able to 3HKO me despite blocking.  Again, this is partially my fault, I haven't been upgrading HP and as such I am super squishy.  That being said, I don't know how I'm meant to rectify this when every place I had access to besides the Glitz Pit nets me no exp, it feels like I am simply being punished for my build.

The chapter gimmick also really hurt it for me.  Like I get the flavor, it's wrestling, you're putting on a show, but in practice it just kind made already difficult fights just entirely unreasonable.  Like most of my time spent in this chapter was redoing fights because the clear condition for the fight was causing me to lose.  I understand now why younger me never made it out of this chapter, it's rough, it's really rough.

Because of all of this I ended up not caring about the story, for the record, I was over this chapter before it even really got going.  The Grubba fight was really fun but otherwise the story was like a C.

11/13/24

Twilight Town's back and forth is honestly less annoying to me than Boggly Woods' or Glitzville's and I think it's because you're not like trapped in a single structure for majority of the chapter so it doesn't feel as small as those two did?  Like I think really the reason why TTYD's backtracking tends to be a problem is not because backtracking is a problem, but because of how TTYD, likely in an attempt to get this entire thing on a GameCube disc, tries to get a lot out of very little.  Like Paper Mario 1 has this problem with Shy Guy's Toybox.  Shy Guy's Toybox is a really annoying area full of a bunch of back and forth busywork, but really, you're not actually doing any less back and forth than you would in any other area.  The problem is Shy Guy's Toybox feels so much smaller than all the other areas in the game, so the back and forth becomes way more noticeable.  Also Vivian is just like so good?  Like she's really strong!  Really really strong!  Which I guess makes sense why she would be, given she's the only party member you can use in this chapter.  Like Vivian I've always been told is the opposite end of the partner balancing issue in this game, where she's like way too strong vs. the other party members, but it totally makes sense why they would make her super overpowered as well as she is literally the only party member available for like 50% of Chapter 4.

I still have yet to really find a point where Koops is especially useful.  Like idk, I feel like in most situations where I'd want to use Koops, it's just better to use Yoshi?  Even if I'm not hitting every enemy with Gulp, Gulp deals 5 to 2 enemies instead of 3 to 3+?

I think honestly what Koops needed is an aggro drawing attack, imo.  Like him being able to tank hits better is super helpful, don't get me wrong, but the game being designed around jumping means it's never a guarantee that they're going to hit Koops if he's out front.  I really think I'd use Koops way more if I knew the damage was going to go to him to tank with his defense.

11/14/24

Chapter 4 done.  This was the high point of the playthrough so far.  The atmosphere of the Twilight Woods is just so good, a perfect spooky chapter imo.  And also it' has been the high point of this game's humor so far, the crows that talk about like the burst of the dot com bubble and the depletion of fossil fuels and stuff are such a great bit.  And Doopliss is a perfect Mario RPG villain, as funny as he is threatening.  Big fan of this.

This story also hits really hard.  I think this is what I actually enjoy about TTYD, like, I concur this game's strong point is that it is willing to tell stories Mario never would, but I think that whereas many people point to the Glitz Pit as being an obvious high point in that respect because it's so un-Mario, I think TTYD is actually better off when it is doing stories Mario wouldn't normally but also still don't feel too out there?  Like the Twilight Woods are darker than a normal Mario story but its fairy tale connections still make it not feel like it's out of place, which I kinda feel like the Glitz Pit does?

Also surprisingly this chapter's backtracking didn't bother me that much, despite the fact that you have to cover what is essentially a hallway like five times.  I think that TTYD is trying to make effective use of incredibly limited space, there are bread loaves with more storage than a GameCube disc, and I commend them for getting a game this grand on such a tiny format.  Personally though I wish there were less areas like the Great Tree and more areas like Twilight Town, where, despite the area being small, it doesn't feel it nearly as much because it's still out in the open rather than a very enclosed and claustrophobic dungeon.

I have finally moved away from trying to make Danger strats happen, mostly, I still have a Danger badge equipped as a safety net, but I'm focused more on building around permanent attack buffs.  Here's hoping I don't almost die as much now, lol.  Still ain't upgrading HP tho.

Oh also I got Ms. Mowz.  She doesn't seem very good but at least now I can get all the badges I keep seeing in battle?  I'm a little surprised how easy it is to get her?  Like I figured she'd have a whole sidequest you had to go through where she hid badges in all the locations you spotted her (Hooktail Castle, The Great Tree, Glitzville) and then you'd recruit her after doing that.  Her attack also doesn't work like I expected it to.  I guess when I saw it was flicking I assumed it was going to be like Bow's where it hits for x amount of damage a number of times but instead it just hits once and ignores defense?

It also took me like way too long to realize Vivian doesn't have any restrictions on her attack?  Like I intuitively assumed that Vivian had to hit the front opponent because her attack is on the ground but no, she just goes anywhere.  Insane.  It makes sense, as she has to function as the entire party for a chapter, but still.  Like I've heard that criticism towards the game before, that on top of existing party balancing issues where Goombella is pretty clearly the best party member for the first few chapters, Vivian is just ridiculous and changes the balance even more, but also I fully get it.  She literally has to cover the entire party, who were probably all upgraded by this point, for at least 50% of Chapter 4.

11/15/24

Bobbery get!  Funny thing about at least the original release of TTYD, if you go into the menus to heal between you talking to Bobbery in Keelhaul Key and returning with the Chuckola Cola, you can already select Bobbery as a party member to use items on.  There would be no reason to do this, as he has full HP.  But still.

Oh another thing I'm realizing is that Goombella is actually going to lag for me for a specific reason: Multibonk is effectively useless for me because of the input lag of playing a game designed for CRTs on a modern TV!  It's something I've noticed being a problem trying to do Power Bounce too, when the timing gets to its maximum tightness, there's just no shot for me anymore, I'm done.  Superguard is also just a nonstarter for me, I've stopped trying.

It's good though, I have 3 extra BP to play around with that I wouldn't if I were playing this game on a CRT where I would absolutely rock Power Bounce, it's the strongest move in the game.  But because of how timing goes, I'm honestly just not seeing enough benefit off Power Bounce to really warrant trying to run it.  I can do like 10-12 off it but I do 8 with a normal attack due to my build so like.  What's the point.  I'm thankful that, outside of certain difficulty spikes due to chapter gimmicks, I'm not actually feeling like the timing being off is hurting me in any way.  Standard action command timing is very generous, you have like a 20-30 frame window it feels.  I think Vivian's might be even longer, actually, which contributes to her being so good.

I'm curious if Keelhaul Key and Twilight Town were, at one point, swapped during development of TTYD, because I think it's really interesting that like, at the end of Twilight Town you unlock two sidequests which take you back to previous areas of the game but then there's not really a lot to do in them with your newfound abilities, but there would be if you had Bobbery already.  And of course Bobbery, like.  I like him, it is not controversial to say he's a pretty underwhelming final party member though.  But like having a villain join the team, that would've made for an excellent final party member.

Them using Shine Sprites is so weird in hindsight.  Like I get why, it's just so weird how much synergy there was with the brand in regards to Sunshine for a few years when now it's such a clear outlier.

Wandering through the Rogueport Sewers post-chapter 5, Ms. Mowz is surprisingly helpful.  She's just a guarantee to handle the damage I need to stomp out Koopatrols, don't have to worry about their crazy defense complicating things.

Chapter 5 done.  Just like a solid chapter, I liked this one.  Cortez was a really cool fight, the dungeon was fun, just very solid overall.  I think this chapter really follows up well on Chapter 4 too, giving what is a very unusual Mario story but not one that ever feels out of place, further highlighting what I like and appreciate about TTYD.  It seems like the Glitz Pit is going to be the only standout "bad part" for me in this game at this rate. 

I am struck off this chapter, and I know this is heresy to say, by how much I think I'd honestly really adore TTYD if it was more of an adventure game like the series' later entries.  I find that I largely enjoy the game the most when I'm mostly puzzle solving and wandering around collecting stuff, and I tend to enjoy it much less when I'm fighting a bunch of enemies.  Like I think when it comes to boss fights, the combat is very fun and very creative, but during regular enemy fights I find combat pretty simple and kind of lacking.

I haven't commented on this before I don't think but man the music in this game is spectacular.  It felt like a good time to mention it because the Cortez Battle theme is such a standout track but on the whole the music has been a high point.  I am such a massive fan of the Twilight Town tune, y'all don't even know. 

I am super glad the mid game picks up so much because coming off the Glitz Pit I was definitely worried this was going to be another instance of "oh no, I hate one of the greatest games of all time" but nah, this game is good, I may not agree on how good but game is good.

11/16/24

Chapter 6 done.  I'm pretty mixed on this chapter.  On the one hand, like it's a mystery on a train, how can you not love that.  On the other hand this chapter is just super dull gameplay wise, literally being stuck in a claustrophobic hallway running back and forth.  It's a chapter I wish I could love more than I actually do. 

I'm glad to finally have another upgrade to Mario's stats, I feel like if I hadn't been building around power then I would've felt like another attack boost was overdue, it being three chapters since the last one.  I have also ended up back at Danger strats, lol, Sweet Feast makes them just really safe so I'm like "yeah, why not, lol".  Bad time to be doing it because this chapter is kind of a drain on SP due to the Paraspike Tops, but you know!

Having now done most of the game I gotta say, I don't think the Peach and Bowser segments are good.  Like the Peach segments are narratively interesting but I find them to be fairly dull to actually play and I would probably have a much bigger issue with them if they weren't all like 10 minutes max.  And the Bowser segments while at times humorous feel largely pointless, it kinda feels like Bowser is only this game because it's a Mario game, you gotta have Bowser.

Glad this chapter had you jump in a painting though, always a stamp of a quality Mario when you get to jump in paintings.  End game is on the horizon, just gotta do Chapter 7, surely nothing infamously bad happens in Chapter 7, amirite?

11/19/2024

Chapter 7 done.  Guess who finally found the "weak enemies die without you having to fight them" badge 7 chapters in!  The hunt for General White is pretty bad, ngl, while the game does give you a somewhat robust fast travel system, it has one of two big blindspots that still ultimately make this part annoying.  But I also  sympathize with why they wanted the final like main chapter be a world tour chapter, it's a good way to close out your adventure, it's just not executed the best.

Thankfully the Chapter picks up greatly in the second half.  X-Naut Fortress is an absolute jam and it being small works to its advantage after so much of this chapter was giving the players the run around.  And it has Resident Evil keys, who doesn't love Resident Evil keys.  And the ending surprisingly got to me, insofar as a sad moment in a Mario game could get to me.

I take back what I said about Ms. Mowz, her Defense piercing is incredibly helpful.  Like if the enemy only has 1 Defense point, it's not worth it but if you get to 2 or more, Mowz is like THE party member to get in there for damage, it's really handy.  I know that like Koops' big attack and a couple others also do that and are probably more effective in the long run but Ms. Mowz does it for free and that's usually enough, I find myself switching between her and Vivian.

I am ready for this game to be over.  Like I've definitely enjoyed this game more than I ever thought I was going to, but like.  I've put 33 hours into this game so far and while I don't regret finally sitting down and finishing it, I feel a bit like it was a lot of time to end up at the assessment of TTYD I had before I did this: this game is fine.  I used to say it's a 7/10, my final rating will probably be a 7.5 or 8/10, it is fine.  I guess now that assessment is at least fully informed?

Btw I was doing all the Troubles for some reason, I don't think I mentioned that, I'm not finishing that, you can't make me watch the Blimp boarding cutscene another time.

For the first time in the entire game, now, in chapter 8, I am finally feeling like I need HP.  Mostly because I know the bosses coming up are brutal in terms of damage.  Like I have 15 HP, the Shadow Queen basically 1 shots me.

11/20/2024

 I made it to the Shadow Queen last night and I did two attempts and like.  Man I don't want to have to watch all those cutscenes again.

Also don't ask the Internet for strategy tips on how to beat the Shadow Queen if you're playing the original on modern TVs!  Their advice is literally just "use Power Bounce 4head" and that doesn't work!

I think my next play is going to be rearranging my badges so that I can equip the other Power Plus P badge, that way Koops, Yoshi and Vivian's attacks that hit all opponents will deal 8 damage and take out the Shadow Hands. I'm surprised there's not a pipe right before the final boss room, tbh?  Like that seems like it should be a thing, so players can restock, swap out items, etc.

I think the other thing for me is like.  You can't skip cutscenes, whatever, it's a game from 2004, it was still a 50/50 shot if any game would let you do that, but also the cutscenes don't autoplay.  You have to mash through.

I haven't beaten the final boss yet but I figured since like I should probably do an end of game summary once I do that, I'm just gonna post Chapter 8 reflections.  So uh.  Chapter 8.

The Palace of Shadow is almost the perfect final dungeon for this game, and possibly in Mario RPG history, tbh.  Its dark, spooky, surreal atmosphere is the perfect culmination of the Thousand Year Door's style and themes, being inherently unsettling without pushing it too far and making it un-Mario.  And there are some truly great setpieces in it, the endless hallway that warps you back to the start if you choose a wrong door, the puzzle tower where you have to solve a series of riddles, the clockwork depths, it's all good stuff.

And on top of all of that, it's a dungeon that makes use of every party member and ability you've gained thus far for puzzle solving and I like that a whole lot.  Like it legitimately is almost my favorite chapter in the game because of how on a thematic level and even mostly in a gameplay level it really ties together the entirety of Thousand Year Door.

But there are two things I think kind of weaken it.  One is that it, at times, plays it too safe.  Like this dungeon, for all of its uniqueness, at times just kind of resorts to doing Bowser's Castle stuff, jumping over firebars, dodging long hallways with bullet bills, etc.  I feel like it makes this dungeon just a touch less cool when it reuses traditional Mario set pieces like this.  Speaking of reused set pieces, I like that it chooses to call back to previous dungeons in the game, I'm not as big of a fan that it only has two callbacks and they're both to Hooktail.  I think honestly I would've welcomed just fully reusing entire rooms from previous dungeons, it'd be a nice "look how far we've come" moment and shifting through so many dissonant rooms would really help the atmosphere, imo.

Overall though, still really positive on this chapter, probably my second favorite in the game, tbh.

The final boss is giving me problems.  I've done two attempts, made some decent headway, the issue is that if I lose I don't feel super plussed to immediately jump back in because it means having to go through all the cutscenes.

Alright, I have finished Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door!  Overall, game is good, I enjoyed it, I'm glad I finally sat down and beat it.  It was a very interesting experience, it's always a bit of a crapshoot when I play these games people love, I have a habit of not liking them, I've even joked about it several times on my Twitter the "list of the greatest games of all time that I think aren't as good as Ecco the Dolphin, the bad Genesis game" but this one was good.

I previously stated that it feels a bit like I spent a lot of time just to end up at "this game is fine", an assessment I had before I did this playthrough, I don't necessarily agree with that.  Like, on the whole, I am not as into this game as most people, that much is true, it's not making any "best games of all time" lists for me, but like.  My general assessment of the Paper Mario series has always been "they're all okay, they're all perfectly fine games" but like, having now played at least the original trilogy I'm now more like "TTYD is obviously better than the rest of the ones I played and while I may not be putting as highly as others, I would be dishonest saying it is of the same exact quality as 64 or Super".

I will however hold to my previous assessment that I wish this game was more of an adventure game.  Like, while I ultimately did enjoy some of the RPG elements by the end, I found the badge juggling and build strategizing to be very fun and the boss design is really strong in this game, I mostly didn't care for the actual combat, feeling it very slow and very simple.  Admittedly, the like most in-depth mechanic, Super guarding, didn't work with how I was playing it so that was part of the problem but like, the entire time I was doing combat I was like "man, I wish I were just playing Mario & Luigi now".

I haven't really commented on the story overall, other than praising like Chapter 4, and honestly like.  It's good, it's a good Mario story, but with how people talk about this game I was absolutely expecting more?  Like the story is always talked about like a really high point of this game, people always talk about how amazing it is, and like.  For a Mario game, this is definitely leaps and bounds over what I'm expecting, don't get me wrong.  But I feel like that clause is often left out of the discussion, as if it is meant to be understood people are talking about this in context of it being a Mario game, and like.  It's difficult not to be a bit disappointed in it.  It's okay.  It's fine.

Actually on that note, I kind of hate the ending?  I actually kind of hate the weirdly saccharine note this game ends on where you go through where your party members are post adventure and all their lives are just going great, tonally it feels kind of off for how TTYD's tone and atmosphere typically goes, but also like.  Some of these stories' happy endings aren't that happy?  Like oh boy, Vivian returns to her transphobic family who used her as a pawn in a plot to awaken a centuries old god that was sealed away and then attempted to murder her when she for splitting off.  I'm not even necessarily sure if I hate this overall, I mean the Vivian part will never sit well with me absolutely, but just like.  It doesn't feel good being posted up at the end of TTYD, this is kind of the thing I would see appearing in a later entry in the series.

Overall though, some high highs, some low lows, it is a game I'm glad I've played.  A much younger version of me would probably love this game, I genuinely think that if I had played it when I had bought it and I was more into RPGs, more willing to excuse sometimes unfun gameplay for story, then this would probably make my favorites list.  As it stands, it's making my top 20 this year right now, there's still a month left in the year so whose to say what happens between then but like.  This moment?  It's the 18th best game I've played this year!